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Re: Biome Mod

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:04 pm
by AnarchCassius
This isn't actually what was in game when I started. The ice shelf changes are mostly Quasars, not mine, for example.

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Re: Biome Mod

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:16 pm
by White parrot
Among those you listed, I prefer the mire (the kelp forest sounds neat too, but it's a bit soon for it to shine since creatures can't really adapt to water yet).

That being said, we may want to take the time to "decid[e] what's a biome category and what's a matter of the specific area" on more thought-out criteria. I'd like to help you on this elaborate mod you're working on, but geography is far from being my forte ... :?

Re: Biome Mod

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:21 pm
by AnarchCassius
Well I'd like to see altitude seperable from temperature. There is a correlation but both matter. Alpine and Montane are somewhat altitude really but I work with what I got for now.

Then there's soil type, which correlates to fertility and temperature but weakly in both cases.

And of course a seasonal pattern. This one probably wouldn't call for more biomes really. Mediterranean is a specific Woodland and Scrub adaption for a seasonal pattern. Steppe is a Grassland adaption for a seasonal pattern. I really really want to see evolving plants for this but as genetic programming isn't in yet for animals it could be awhile.

Hey, I just want a conversation, we can talk about this and maybe Quasar can put up a poll for me later.

Re: Biome Mod

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:51 pm
by sylverone
Off topic, but how much are creatures slowed by being in water? Any other penalties?

Like White parrot, I tend toward interest in the more watery ones. I think something on the land will be basically like more of the same with the limited variables at present. But maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture. Aesthetically, I would sort of like to see a snowy area with plant life, so maybe steppe tundra.

Re: Biome Mod

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:14 pm
by White parrot
I don't remember other penalties for being in water (well, except for creatures that don't find food in it :roll: ). I'd wager they move at half-speed, but it's more intuition that remembrance on my part !

Hmmmm ... Question time !
Does "fertility" here means "humidity" ?
What are the effect of altitude on plant life ? Looks like they would be a bit burned and dehydrated by UV, and the temperatures are not nice either, but what exactly can't be assimilated to a modification in Temperature-Fertility ?

Re: Biome Mod

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:40 pm
by AnarchCassius
The different air pressure creates different weather conditions mostly. Montane forests are often in the cloud level.

Edit Fertility mostly means humidity, but on salt water maps the sea itself replaces Salt on the other side and only air humidity helps. On those maps Swamp doesn't appear by the water in Ocean but in my mod they do appear (instead of Beach) in very hot wet places.

I hear a rivers system is underway which might be a more complex interaction.

Edit 2: Tundra and Taiga are more verdant in my mod and I'm considering reskinning some plants as placeholders til evolution comes in and/or I can figure out the model format details. I may not use Steppe Tundra if we can see enough local variance in Tundra itself. Right now the plants have spontaneous generation on though which makes that impossible. We need it disabled and more plants or plant evolution to take this to the next level.

My reasoning on this is we have the pack ice shelf for areas that are just too cold for plants. The coldest Tundras should have encroachments of that which combined with a regional variance may get us Steppe Tundra. Such a variance would handle Kelp Forest and maybe even handle Mire. The Alpine and Woodland biomes differ for more geographic and climatic reasons.

Re: Biome Mod

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:11 am
by sylverone
Rivers sound interesting. I wonder what effects they'll bring.

Re: Biome Mod

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:55 am
by AnarchCassius
Thank you all so much for the feedback by the way. I was wondering how interested people were in this and it's good to know there is interest.

Re: Biome Mod

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:44 am
by sylverone
My only reservation is in whether it meaningfully affects the simulation. Have you noticed any differences so far? It would be really nice if we had a terrain editor to make our own maps and test the individual biomes out. Just paint some scrub here, some forest there (it would automatically set fertility and temp to the correct range), or paint in the temp and fertility yourself to get what you want. Or have nifty tools like I described in this post (I hope I described my thoughts understandably.):
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=324#p1711

That said, I do like the idea, and I'm sure it will get even better once modding gets opened up more. I suppose I should have said so earlier, but I haven't tried your mod yet, mainly because I haven't run Species for a week or so (just busy). I look forward to trying it out.

Re: Biome Mod

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:03 am
by AnarchCassius
For me the effects are subtle since I'm making incremental changes. I need to check against a vanilla again soon.

Mostly ecosystem drift seems a bit subtler and Scrub currently tends to dominate. Before Desert was common but now the plants and animals meet equlibruim mostly at Scrub. Then animals eat away patches to desert and move on; meanwhile forests and grasslands take hold elsewhere and spread in waves. It's not too different but I think with some plant tweaks it could really make a more stable detailed world. Sadly I don't have quite all the tools I need yet. Quasar himself doesn't have all the tools I need yet. :)