Odd biome delineation related to water level

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White parrot
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Odd biome delineation related to water level

Post by White parrot » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:11 am

In my current simulation water level appears to be severely higher than the shore, with pines taking roots underwater. This strikes me as not working as intended.
Pine mangrove.jpg
Pine mangrove.jpg (150.19 KiB) Viewed 618 times
At this point, we shouldn't be surprised by anything nature does. She's like a meth addict whose drug-fueled rampages unfold in slow motion and span millions of years.
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Natural_20
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Re: Odd biome delineation related to water level

Post by Natural_20 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:30 pm

I've got an oasis world with a lovely underwater pine forest. The tops of the trees just stick out, and the bottom is covered in forest grass. it doesn't seem to be following depth at all, as there are normal underwater biomes adjacent to it at the same depth.
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White parrot
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Re: Odd biome delineation related to water level

Post by White parrot » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:17 am

I think I get it:
Quasar wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:09 am
This chart should help illustrate why grazing works the way it does. Grazing doesn't directly change the biome, it changes the underlying Fertility.

Image

(This chart is for "Freshwater" biomes, by the way. The Ocean map type uses the "Saltwater" biome chart, which puts the water biomes on the bottom end of fertility spectrum)
My theory is that creatures have grazed freshwater biomes enough to drop fertility to terrestrial level, allowing pines to grow. If correct, in oceanic maps, creatures foolish or desperate enough to lick salt flats for subsistence could generate deep sea biomes...

It depends on how the "water level" limit is dealt with. It has to have come up earlier, but I don't remember it, and I haven't played with water elevation tools... :|

Quasar, would it be possible to have two independent charts (one for land, one for water) with water level determining which one each tile refers to?
At this point, we shouldn't be surprised by anything nature does. She's like a meth addict whose drug-fueled rampages unfold in slow motion and span millions of years.
Silly Otter wrote:Welcome to the forum.
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Natural_20
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Re: Odd biome delineation related to water level

Post by Natural_20 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:16 am

White parrot wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:17 am
My theory is that creatures have grazed freshwater biomes enough to drop fertility to terrestrial level, allowing pines to grow. If correct, in oceanic maps, creatures foolish or desperate enough to lick salt flats for subsistence could generate deep sea biomes...

It depends on how the "water level" limit is dealt with. It has to have come up earlier, but I don't remember it, and I haven't played with water elevation tools... :|

Quasar, would it be possible to have two independent charts (one for land, one for water) with water level determining which one each tile refers to?
This is what it's supposed to be doing already; fertility was divided into land and water in patch 0.11.1.0. The tile designation just doesn't seem to be working right now.

I've only seen this on oasis maps thus far.
Quasar wrote:Dammit, we forgot to sell the psycho drugs and now the chickens are ODing.

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White parrot
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Re: Odd biome delineation related to water level

Post by White parrot » Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:43 pm

Natural_20 wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:16 am
White parrot wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:17 am
My theory is that creatures have grazed freshwater biomes enough to drop fertility to terrestrial level, allowing pines to grow. If correct, in oceanic maps, creatures foolish or desperate enough to lick salt flats for subsistence could generate deep sea biomes...

It depends on how the "water level" limit is dealt with. It has to have come up earlier, but I don't remember it, and I haven't played with water elevation tools... :|

Quasar, would it be possible to have two independent charts (one for land, one for water) with water level determining which one each tile refers to?
This is what it's supposed to be doing already; fertility was divided into land and water in patch 0.11.1.0. The tile designation just doesn't seem to be working right now.
Thanks for the info. :)
And yet the quoted post from Quasar is from November 6th, so after the patch. Something is fishy here... (Pun not intended.)

Natural_20 wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:16 am
I've only seen this on oasis maps thus far.
I'd better check but I think mine is on oasis too...
At this point, we shouldn't be surprised by anything nature does. She's like a meth addict whose drug-fueled rampages unfold in slow motion and span millions of years.
Silly Otter wrote:Welcome to the forum.
Please ignore the cultists.

Natural_20
Posts: 1647
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Re: Odd biome delineation related to water level

Post by Natural_20 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:38 pm

White parrot wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:43 pm
Natural_20 wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:16 am
White parrot wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:17 am
My theory is that creatures have grazed freshwater biomes enough to drop fertility to terrestrial level, allowing pines to grow. If correct, in oceanic maps, creatures foolish or desperate enough to lick salt flats for subsistence could generate deep sea biomes...

It depends on how the "water level" limit is dealt with. It has to have come up earlier, but I don't remember it, and I haven't played with water elevation tools... :|

Quasar, would it be possible to have two independent charts (one for land, one for water) with water level determining which one each tile refers to?
This is what it's supposed to be doing already; fertility was divided into land and water in patch 0.11.1.0. The tile designation just doesn't seem to be working right now.
Thanks for the info. :)
And yet the quoted post from Quasar is from November 6th, so after the patch. Something is fishy here... (Pun not intended.)

Natural_20 wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:16 am
I've only seen this on oasis maps thus far.
I'd better check but I think mine is on oasis too...
My theory is that land/water tiles aren't being properly designated on oasis maps, probably due to more elevation map weirdness from the monogame move.
Quasar wrote:Dammit, we forgot to sell the psycho drugs and now the chickens are ODing.

smjjames
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Re: Odd biome delineation related to water level

Post by smjjames » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:11 pm

White parrot wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:43 pm
Natural_20 wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:16 am
White parrot wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:17 am
My theory is that creatures have grazed freshwater biomes enough to drop fertility to terrestrial level, allowing pines to grow. If correct, in oceanic maps, creatures foolish or desperate enough to lick salt flats for subsistence could generate deep sea biomes...

It depends on how the "water level" limit is dealt with. It has to have come up earlier, but I don't remember it, and I haven't played with water elevation tools... :|

Quasar, would it be possible to have two independent charts (one for land, one for water) with water level determining which one each tile refers to?
This is what it's supposed to be doing already; fertility was divided into land and water in patch 0.11.1.0. The tile designation just doesn't seem to be working right now.
Thanks for the info. :)
And yet the quoted post from Quasar is from November 6th, so after the patch. Something is fishy here... (Pun not intended.)

Natural_20 wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:16 am
I've only seen this on oasis maps thus far.
I'd better check but I think mine is on oasis too...
Actually, I've seen it with trees on other map types, except in a smaller area. Also, on Oasis, if you don't change the water level as white parrot is saying, the trees will grow right on the waters edge, kind of just 'offshore' enough to count as mangroves without being too ridiculous. Which is exactly what they're describing up top.

While we're still talking about biome weirdness with water, plateu/0.4.0 is really weird in that you can have underwater biomes without the water. Probably because those two don't have water in the first place and so, the map generation just applies it based on the distribution mode.

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