The Species ALRE Roadmap

Announcements and infodumps from the Species dev team.
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Quasar
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The Species ALRE Roadmap

Post by Quasar » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:04 am

https://speciesdevblog.wordpress.com/20 ... d-roadmap/

Presented without comment:

Image

Obligatory Disclaimer: nothing on this road map is guaranteed or promised. While I have put plenty of thought into at least some of these features, implementation hasn’t actually begun on any of them. At this point, almost everything this map is purely conceptual.

Also, I reserve the right to go off on unplanned tangents at any time and implement things not on this chart if I think they’ll add to the game.

(Okay, presented with minimal comment)

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magmacube_tr
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Re: The Species ALRE Roadmap

Post by magmacube_tr » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:52 pm

Uhh... Good luck on shoals/swarms...
Your everyday cube of molten rock. Also, look, a baby dragon.

░░▄▄▄░░▄▄██████▀
░▀▀██░███████▀▀
░▄█▀░███████▀
██▄▄███████████▄▄
▀█████████████▀

But thats a swa-

Shut up! This is the closest thing I could find.

Image

Natural_20
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Re: The Species ALRE Roadmap

Post by Natural_20 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:21 pm

magmacube_tr wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:52 pm
Uhh... Good luck on shoals/swarms...
The plan for shoals and swarms is to make clusters of "tiny creatures" that move around as a single entity. They will be non-evolving because they're too small to really see and too reliant on r-select reproduction to really matter individually. In other words, they're like "mobile plants" for carnivores to "browse" from. They provide a basic, safe, but not very nutritious source of meat for small carnivores, some of which can then evolve to hunt real creatures instead.
Quasar wrote:Dammit, we forgot to sell the psycho drugs and now the chickens are ODing.

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magmacube_tr
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Re: The Species ALRE Roadmap

Post by magmacube_tr » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:25 pm

Natural_20 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:21 pm
magmacube_tr wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:52 pm
Uhh... Good luck on shoals/swarms...
The plan for shoals and swarms is to make clusters of "tiny creatures" that move around as a single entity. They will be non-evolving because they're too small to really see and too reliant on r-select reproduction to really matter individually. In other words, they're like "mobile plants" for carnivores to "browse" from. They provide a basic, safe, but not very nutritious source of meat for small carnivores, some of which can then evolve to hunt real creatures instead.
I thought this was meant to advanced group behaviour, well then
Your everyday cube of molten rock. Also, look, a baby dragon.

░░▄▄▄░░▄▄██████▀
░▀▀██░███████▀▀
░▄█▀░███████▀
██▄▄███████████▄▄
▀█████████████▀

But thats a swa-

Shut up! This is the closest thing I could find.

Image

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White parrot
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Re: The Species ALRE Roadmap

Post by White parrot » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:09 pm

magmacube_tr wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:25 pm
Natural_20 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:21 pm
magmacube_tr wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:52 pm
Uhh... Good luck on shoals/swarms...
The plan for shoals and swarms is to make clusters of "tiny creatures" that move around as a single entity. They will be non-evolving because they're too small to really see and too reliant on r-select reproduction to really matter individually. In other words, they're like "mobile plants" for carnivores to "browse" from. They provide a basic, safe, but not very nutritious source of meat for small carnivores, some of which can then evolve to hunt real creatures instead.
I thought this was meant to advanced group behaviour, well then
Admittedly, "Social behaviours" is on the list too, so... :P

Quasar wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:04 am
While I have put plenty of thought into at least some of these features, implementation hasn’t actually begun on any of them.
Well I'm surprised to learn you haven't begun to implement aquatic life or Mac/Linux portability, but OK. :P

Do the colours have any meaning or are they just to differentiate "feature clusters"?

This kind of charts really put into view the sheer ambition of the project. :shock: There are a lot of things I didn't even remember being mentioned!

I'm wondering if "Calls" could be linked to "Hearing"; more generally, IIRC, most interactions between creatures involve use of the "Ping()" system, so tinkering with this base could have effect on various features.
At this point, we shouldn't be surprised by anything nature does. She's like a meth addict whose drug-fueled rampages unfold in slow motion and span millions of years.
Silly Otter wrote:Welcome to the forum.
Please ignore the cultists.

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Quasar
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Re: The Species ALRE Roadmap

Post by Quasar » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:37 pm

White parrot wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:09 pm
Do the colours have any meaning or are they just to differentiate "feature clusters"?
This. Cyan is gameplay, green is world, yellow is creature features and red is creature interaction.
I'm wondering if "Calls" could be linked to "Hearing"; more generally, IIRC, most interactions between creatures involve use of the "Ping()" system, so tinkering with this base could have effect on various features.
I need to work on re-creating the sense system. The problem with it's original iteration was that it kept resulting in P.specium dying off due to being blind and deaf.

I have a few idea's for v2, though, so we'll see how that goes.

Natural_20
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Re: The Species ALRE Roadmap

Post by Natural_20 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:14 pm

Once you get back to adding features, I recommend focusing on social behavior, shoals and swarms, and maybe camouflage. I think there just aren't enough ways for carnivores to get started, with prey items all being similar in size to the predator and carcasses being relatively rare. Using much slower aging (0.1) has helped though, and they're pretty successful if they can get a foothold.

Social awareness would also make them feel so much more alive, and maybe prevent some of the large die-offs from overgrazing.
Quasar wrote:Dammit, we forgot to sell the psycho drugs and now the chickens are ODing.

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White parrot
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Re: The Species ALRE Roadmap

Post by White parrot » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:30 pm

Natural_20 wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:14 pm
Once you get back to adding features, I recommend focusing on social behavior, shoals and swarms, and maybe camouflage. I think there just aren't enough ways for carnivores to get started, with prey items all being similar in size to the predator and carcasses being relatively rare.
I tend to think carnivory should put a bigger emphasis on scavenging:
- corpses are easy to hunt, allowing unspecialised carnivores to get an anchor point;
- it seems to me that IRL a lot of megafaunal carnivores largely prefer scavenging to hunting if feasible, to the point of often chasing away other carnivores from their kill;
- if hunting is noticeably harder than scavenging, it should make wiping out herbivores harder to do.

I had forgotten them, but shoals/swarms should participate to the same goal of providing a semi-reliable source of meat that doesn't menace herbivore populations, so I can agree with that.
At this point, we shouldn't be surprised by anything nature does. She's like a meth addict whose drug-fueled rampages unfold in slow motion and span millions of years.
Silly Otter wrote:Welcome to the forum.
Please ignore the cultists.

smjjames
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Re: The Species ALRE Roadmap

Post by smjjames » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:14 pm

Quasar wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:37 pm
White parrot wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:09 pm
Do the colours have any meaning or are they just to differentiate "feature clusters"?
This. Cyan is gameplay, green is world, yellow is creature features and red is creature interaction.
I'm wondering if "Calls" could be linked to "Hearing"; more generally, IIRC, most interactions between creatures involve use of the "Ping()" system, so tinkering with this base could have effect on various features.
I need to work on re-creating the sense system. The problem with it's original iteration was that it kept resulting in P.specium dying off due to being blind and deaf.

I have a few idea's for v2, though, so we'll see how that goes.
Touch and smell (well, chemical signal sensing) should be the most basic. Touch shouldn't be a problem (since it's what, hitbox detection?) and smell/chemical signal detection is going to be somewhat harder. Also, being able to implement smell properly will actually help with carnivore survival because then they can track down prey if they are hungry but can't see/hear them.
White parrot wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:30 pm
Natural_20 wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:14 pm
Once you get back to adding features, I recommend focusing on social behavior, shoals and swarms, and maybe camouflage. I think there just aren't enough ways for carnivores to get started, with prey items all being similar in size to the predator and carcasses being relatively rare.
I tend to think carnivory should put a bigger emphasis on scavenging:
- corpses are easy to hunt, allowing unspecialised carnivores to get an anchor point;
- it seems to me that IRL a lot of megafaunal carnivores largely prefer scavenging to hunting if feasible, to the point of often chasing away other carnivores from their kill;
- if hunting is noticeably harder than scavenging, it should make wiping out herbivores harder to do.

I had forgotten them, but shoals/swarms should participate to the same goal of providing a semi-reliable source of meat that doesn't menace herbivore populations, so I can agree with that.
I agree here, however, we'd run into the problem of supply. We have to make it work for people whose computers can't handle more than several hundred of the critters running around in the world. At least for now until multithreading gets implemented. About 800-1000 is the point where things start going south FPS wise.

Natural_20
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Re: The Species ALRE Roadmap

Post by Natural_20 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:01 pm

smjjames wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:14 pm
Quasar wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:37 pm
White parrot wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:09 pm
Do the colours have any meaning or are they just to differentiate "feature clusters"?
This. Cyan is gameplay, green is world, yellow is creature features and red is creature interaction.
I'm wondering if "Calls" could be linked to "Hearing"; more generally, IIRC, most interactions between creatures involve use of the "Ping()" system, so tinkering with this base could have effect on various features.
I need to work on re-creating the sense system. The problem with it's original iteration was that it kept resulting in P.specium dying off due to being blind and deaf.

I have a few idea's for v2, though, so we'll see how that goes.
Touch and smell (well, chemical signal sensing) should be the most basic. Touch shouldn't be a problem (since it's what, hitbox detection?) and smell/chemical signal detection is going to be somewhat harder. Also, being able to implement smell properly will actually help with carnivore survival because then they can track down prey if they are hungry but can't see/hear them.
White parrot wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:30 pm
Natural_20 wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:14 pm
Once you get back to adding features, I recommend focusing on social behavior, shoals and swarms, and maybe camouflage. I think there just aren't enough ways for carnivores to get started, with prey items all being similar in size to the predator and carcasses being relatively rare.
I tend to think carnivory should put a bigger emphasis on scavenging:
- corpses are easy to hunt, allowing unspecialised carnivores to get an anchor point;
- it seems to me that IRL a lot of megafaunal carnivores largely prefer scavenging to hunting if feasible, to the point of often chasing away other carnivores from their kill;
- if hunting is noticeably harder than scavenging, it should make wiping out herbivores harder to do.

I had forgotten them, but shoals/swarms should participate to the same goal of providing a semi-reliable source of meat that doesn't menace herbivore populations, so I can agree with that.
I agree here, however, we'd run into the problem of supply. We have to make it work for people whose computers can't handle more than several hundred of the critters running around in the world. At least for now until multithreading gets implemented. About 800-1000 is the point where things start going south FPS wise.
We were talking about what comes after the big performance patch that Quasar is already working on.

Further lowering the decay rate on corpses might be enough to get carnivores going, but how long do we ultimately want decay to take relative to a creature's lifespan?

Now that Parrot mentioned it, making sense of smell a higher priority than swarms might be a good idea. Scavengers rely on smell at least as much as predators, so being able to smell a carcass could make scavenging a lot more efficient.
Quasar wrote:Dammit, we forgot to sell the psycho drugs and now the chickens are ODing.

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